YCS staff bicker amongst themselves, Vol. 473

>> Wednesday

Hey, it's healthy for like-minded people to disagree. Or as the case with Mike, to have one guy in the group that seemingly everyone always disagrees with, all the time, about everything.

Well sorry, Mike--you're being singled out again. And it's for this recent comment on a Nate post:

My dumbass friend: "A-Rod's such a choker. Why can't he be more like Jeter?"

Me: You do realize there's really no such thing as a "clutch" player? It's just something that gets attached to you based on factors out of your control (batting order, defensive stops, etc.) that puts a player in a position to win the game in the closing minutes, and based on that small sample size. If it were a larger sample size, the player would most likely on average perform at the same level as the rest of his career. It's just that no one remembers a game-winning home run if it happened in the 5th inning.

MDAF: But some players just thrive off those pressure situations and rise to the challenge.

Me: (double blink)
Now unless I'm horribly mistaken and "(double blink)" is your way of saying "You know what--maybe I've oversimplified the matter. You just might have a point"--unlikely given your choice of descriptor for your friend, who I hope reads this blog by the way--I'd like to stick up for Mr. MDAF. Even further, I'd like to suggest that you, Mike, may very well be the dumbass.

(And an aside: Do you have any documentation of your friend saying, "Why can't he be more like Jeter?" I honestly can't imagine someone saying this, and without having been there, I'm almost 100% certain that that part of this story is pure embellishment.)

Allow me to make one thing perfectly clear--I absolutely believe in the notion of "clutch" players. I say this almost defensively because I've long been branded this blog's coldly intellectual, Baseball Prospectus-/ Fire Joe Morgan-loving statnick, and I'm afraid that I'm responsible for perpetuating the non-existence of "clutch."

But I have never denied that such a thing exists. Do I believe that the difference between "clutch" and "non-clutch" players is wildly exaggerated? Of course. Do I believe that single outcomes and small samples are too readily attributed to "clutchness"? Absolutely. But I'd really like to know--Why is it reasonable to extrapolate this skepticism into all-out denial of "clutch"? This is like confirming/denying the human impact on global warming on near-certain-yet-still-uncertain evidence that it exists. But of course, no one around this blog would ever do a thing like-- Oops. Nevermind.

Uh, right, staying on topic. I think it would be crazy for anyone who has ever played a sport--nay, anyone who's ever done anything requiring mental and physical coordination--to rule out the notion of "clutchness." Maybe we've never felt it on the free-throw line in the Final Four, but we've at least felt it in sectionals, or rec-league, or during that final showdown with Dr. Wily on Mega Man 2. Because what are we talking about when we say "clutch" is simple--it's performing in situations when stakes are highest, and opportunity to atone is most limited.

Yes, it is extremely hard to define a clutch situation in a sports context and even harder to quantify clutch performance. Does it pertain to big games only? Or big moments within games? Or only big moments late in games? Then where to draw the line? Playoff games? Deciding playoff games? Games in the month of September when leading or trailing a penant race by three games or less? During the final minute with a two-possession or less point margin?

Trying to define this sort of thing has historically put us in a worse spot. It's how we ended up with ridiculous and arbitrary stats like the save, or worse yet, the save's lame spinoff, the hold. (Damn you, Jerome Holtzman.) I think most people would agree that sports need less of these measurements, not more.

And that doesn't even address the problem in analyzing the results. How large is a large enough sample size? Is a certain player's sample disproportionately loaded with events during a certain stage of his career? Or during a certain time in the season? And say a player's numbers suggest he's super-clutch during single-game "clutch" situations but horribly chokey during seasonally-defined "clutch" situations. Now we need more specific terms to define different types of clutch! You hear that--more terms!

Of course, these complications are simply complications. None of them preclude the tangible, psychological effects of "big" situations on performance results. When they work for us, we slip into that distraction-free vacuum where our hands and feet and eyes do their thing in perfect synch without our mental noise to rattle them. When they work against us, we get sweaty palms, ticks in our muscle memory, and occasionally, a tiny discharge of urine.

So the real question we're asking is, could there be certain players who experience the positive effects during "clutch" situations more often than other players do? To that, I respond: Yes!!!!! Of course!!! How could you rule this out?! Players range in ability in every other imaginable way, so why not this one?!

It would seem logical, then, that if players differed in their response to pressure, the impact on their results--as compared to non-"clutch" situations--would differ as well. How much? Who knows. Maybe if we could quantify the results for a particular "clutch" situation, we'd find that major league hitters experience anywhere from a 15% drop to a 15% increase in OPS compared to non-"clutch" situations. Maybe a certain "clutch" NBA player experiences a 5% increase in shooting accuracy from a particular spot on the floor during "clutch" situations as compared to non-"clutch" situations.

Are those reasonable ranges? Again, I don't know. I'm just trying to throw stuff out here. The point being that regardless, this evaluation of "clutch" is inevitably left mostly to our perception and speculation. Our memories would suggest that David Ortiz and Chauncey Billups improve their probabilities for success during high-pressure situations. Is the evidence overwhelming and complete enough to say this for certain? Well, no, probably not. To say so is to say the obvious. But to extrapolate such an obvious observation into something as far reaching as the total and utter non-existence of this thing we call "clutch" is retarded. We need to stop trying to throw this shit out there.

Maybe the truest evidence of "clutch" lies in the place least tangible to us--the player's own mind. Chauncey Billups calls himself "Mr. Big Shot." As absurd as it may sound, this might be our strongest evidence that Billups is, in fact, a "clutch" player. After all, without an overwhelming body of data available, only the player really knows how he reacts to the "big" moment.

For all we know, David Ortiz wets his pants everytime he bats in extra innings, and he becomes so delirious that he's actually swinging at the tail of a floating red serpent instead of a baseball. Maybe David Ortiz is actually the least "clutch" player in the entire MLB, and he's just gotten remarkably lucky so far in his small sample of "clutch" opportunities. But again, this would only point out the inadequacy of a small sample, not disprove the notion of "clutch."

"Clutch" exists, people. Is it all-but-impossible to measure? Probably. Is its effect on particular outcomes wildly exaggerated? Definitely. Can we gauge an individual's "clutchness" well enough to brand one guy "clutch" and another a choker? Ehhh... Not sure.

So there you go. All those words and my big conclusion is "not sure." It may not be ballsy, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than a bullshit denial.

14 comments:

Anonymous,  8:06 AM  

You're full of shit. There's no such thing as clutch. Good players play as well in cherry picked situations as they do in a broader representation of their overall body of work. Outcomes change, performance usually doesn't.

Ken Tremendous and co. would be ashamed of you.

Mike 10:06 AM  

The kid was a Yankees fan. He actually did believe that Jeter was "clutch" and A-Rod was "always choking," despite my attempt to spread the YCS gospel.

On a side note. One of the lamest stats on "clutch performance" that I've seen in my years of watching soccer and before that, ice hockey, is the stat of "game-winning goals."

That's fantastic that he got the game winning goal, but it was a 2-1 win, and he scored the goal in the first half. Or his team won 7-2, and he scored the third goal in the second period. However, the stat is frequently brought up in situations where the game is on the line.

Vinnie 10:49 AM  

But your recounting of that story indicates you were rejecting the notion of clutch altogether. So as far as I'm concerned, you had no business pouncing on him like that. He was guilty of exaggerating his (and tons of other fans') flimsy perception, but you were guilty of stretching your skepticism into an insupportable conclusion. Good work.

And Ken Tremendous is not the boss of me.

Anonymous,  10:49 AM  

Do you people watch sports? Of course there's such a thing as clutch. Look to the NBA where there are the most playoff games and therefore most clutch situations where you absolutely have to win. You can take this rather large sample size and see that some players (Shaq, Jordan, Duncan) damn near always come through when it matters most and others (Chamberlin, Carter, Artest) always fall short.
Corcoran

Vinnie 10:50 AM  

Mr. Corcoran--Even though you're agreeing with me, I'd tell you that "always" is a poor word choice.

Anonymous,  11:07 AM  

Agreed, always is an overstatement seeing Chamberlin did retire with rings. But I stand by the overall point.

Mike 11:46 AM  

What I’ve been trying to say, (and perhaps this hasn’t come across) is that “clutchiness” is by and large an artificial creation, done so only because the moment had everything on the line, and people remember that more. I mean, sure someone may hit a home run or hit a late shot to win a game at the end, but were moments beforehand any less important? In a one or two-run game, is a home run in the 3rd inning any different from one in the 8th? Do two free throws made in the first quarter of an NBA Finals Game 7 count less towards the final score than the buzzer-beater at the end? No, but the one later in the game often gets remembered with more clarity, and if it happens enough, that player is given a “clutch” tag.

I noticed in your listing of some of the great “clutch” players of all time, that you have also listed players who have been to the playoffs with incredible (OK, maybe not with the NBA’s playoff structure) regularity. Michael Jordan never played a season with the Bulls where they didn’t go to the playoffs. The first time he missed the playoffs was his first season with the Wizards, when his reputation for being a "clutch" player had already been established. Shaq has been on a playoff team every year but his rookie year. Duncan has only missed the playoffs once. In an extended series, where you are your team’s marquee player, of course you’re going to get a number of opportunities for “clutch” play, and as such earn a tag as a “clutch player.”

Vince Carter on the other hand has only been to the playoffs four out of his eight completed seasons in the NBA. Artest has missed the playoffs three years out of seven and I doubt the reason why is their “lack of clutchiness.”

Like Vinnie said, the border for what we define as “clutch” is rather ambiguous, and since “statistics for game 6 or higher with 5 minutes left or less” are hard to find, I’m going to compare the stats of the players you mentioned for their performance in the regular season, and in the playoffs in four statistical categories, Points per game, field goal percentage, rebounds per game, and assists per game. Any other stats appear to be skewed because of the number of games played (ie: minutes. You can rest your starter a lot more easily in December than in May or June).

The first number listed is his regular season stat, the second, his playoff stat.

Michael Jordan: PPG 30.1/33.4, FG% .497/.487, RPG 6.2/6.4, APG 5.3/5.7

Vince Carter: PPG 23.9/25.9, FG% .445/.404, RPG 5.4/6.8, APG 4.0/5.2

Shaquille O’Neal: PPG 26.3/26.6, FG% .580/.562, RPG 11.8/12.5, APG 2.8/3.0

Tim Duncan: PPG 22.1/23.8, FG% .505/.497, RPG 12.0/13.0, APG 3.1/3.6

Ron Artest: PPG 14.8/17.3, FG% .416/.385, RPG 4.8/6.3, APG 3.1/3.0

Wilt Chamberlain: PPG 30.1/22.5, .FG% 540/.522, RPG 22.9/24.5, APG 4.4/4.2

As you can see, with only a few exceptions, players' stats are often remarkably similar between their performance in the regular season and their performance in the playoffs (“When it matters”).

Vinnie 12:15 PM  

And what I'm still saying is that people shouldn't deny the effects of those memorable, pressure situations because the psychological element has a very real, tangible effect on performance. Should we think of the three-ball hit with 6.2 left on the clock as more important than the one hit in the first half? Well, no, we really shouldn't.

But again, that whole lack of opportunity to atone is something that can affect an outcome, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Why is impossible for the better/worse part to vary from player to player? And that's what you still refuse to answer because you can't, and I don't think anyone can.

Maybe, like you say, "clutch" is unimportant. I won't quibble too much with that. But we should acknowledgeit's existence.

Vinnie 12:16 PM  

*acknowledge its existence.

Nathan 12:37 PM  

I believe in the existence of "clutch" but I do not believe that players magically get better in clutch situations.

Being a clutch player is not allowing the situation to affect you negatively (sweaty palms, shaky hands, etc.) Players like Ortiz have better numbers in clutch situations, not because they are given a video-game boost of +3 in their attributes, but because they are not affected by the situation as much as their opponents. The fastballs don't have the same accuracy, the curveballs tend to hang a little more, making it easier for Ortiz's normal, every day abilities to take advantage of a rattled opponent.

That's my two cents.

Vinnie 1:07 PM  

That's a good way to look at it, and kind of the way I've typically seen it too. However, I've come around more to the following idea: It's not so much that a "clutch" player could will himself to get better during these situations, but that he avoids the less-than-optimal focus that inevitably mars some indeterminate percentage of his "hum-drum" at-bats, shots, etc.

I'm not saying that ballplayers intentionally half-ass it, but again, don't deny personal experience--we all focus more when stakes are higher. And again, I think it's only logical to acknowledge that some players are more able than others to will themselves to this focused place, or alternately, to have this focus come upon them in pressure situations.

Vinnie 1:09 PM  

Which, by the way, could certainly go hand-in-hand with what you said, Nate. And it probably does.

Anonymous,  5:53 AM  

For every one person who 'prevents' something, there will be many, many more who will gladly wait and see - and then PAY handsomely for a cure You are the only judge of your life and what you will judge in the last moment of your life, is how well you loved The best stones, however, are found in Columbia, South America If you're a parent, what do you wish you knew about a topic? Write down questions that you have as you go through the day
This paper wishes to relate here a first hand experience to illustrate how this code of conduct can be recklessly ignoredThis is fine Use adequate ventilation please

Bears Brandon Marshall Jersey
Bears Brian Urlacher Jersey

I will Have you ever had one of those days where you just wish you were in a better mood? Perhaps you tried to shift your state of mind to something better but struggled to achieve itA lot of people spend a lot of money at chic pet boutiques, dressing their dogs in hundred-dollar sweaters and paying for meticulous pedicures Unintentionally encouraging allergic reactions Basketball fans wear NBA jerseys to support their state or favorite teams

Nike Charles Tillman Jersey

Anonymous,  7:12 AM  

[url=http://cars.sc/gscea][b]uggs boots[/b][/url]
jn4479 [url=http://x1b.it/4I][b]discount ugg boots[/b][/url]
iv4385 [url=http://energydevelopmentholdings.com/169][b]uggs sale[/b][/url]
mj8029 [url=http://ltlbox.es/fd3i9][b]uggs boots sale[/b][/url]
fe4169 [url=http://khaka.tk/1p5][b]sale ugg[/b][/url]
ld1941

Post a Comment

NSAwins is a popular site for daily vegas sports odds including updated Vegas Super Bowl Odds and weekly NFL totals and odds during football season. Check out NSAwins during March Madness for FREE March Madness Brackets to Print and Expert Picks on the NCAA Tournament. NSAwins also offers HUGE 100% BetUs Bonus Code and BoDog Bonus Code sportsbook promos.
Online Casino Reports - Online Gambling Guide and Directory for casinos, poker and sports betting.

Get out of your yellow chairs and onto some treadmills to train like a pro.

Check out Casino Guide Canada for free NFL online betting picks and the best online casinos for Canadian and US players today!
USA Online Casino guides you not only to casino bonus, but odds of sportsbook for online sports betting. Try your luckiness today to enjoy gaming games on the internet.

Blog Archive

Try GP sports for luscious sports betting games in a stylish setting. Play to your heart's content and be in with the chance of winning big!

  © Blogger template Webnolia by Ourblogtemplates.com 2009

Back to TOP